It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Reference 1 that "Hong Kong is hailed as the number one healthcare system in the world" is an article about the owner of an online computer game.PropagandaSlayer said:If you look at the references page, you will see that my sources are Hong Kong's government and Bloomberg's most recent rating of world healthcare systems. Source 3 references the Center for Disease Control and Prevention for the 30 minute emergency room average, as does source 4. In other words, the information I've posted is anything but "fake and distorted information." It is all information taken from credible reporting agencies.Ampersand said:Great commitment to your gimmick, posting fake and distorted information as if it were true.PropagandaSlayer said:
Debra AI Prediction
Arguments
  Considerate: 90%  
  Substantial: 10%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 1.7  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 97%  
  Learn More About Debra
Blues and Raptors handed two very toxic teams embarrassing losses, 95% of the sports world is rejoicing in the news
Repealing the Second Amendment is the first step to Totalitarianism, and it needs to be prevented to protect our freedom
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/
  Considerate: 88%  
  Substantial: 70%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 83%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 5.42  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 96%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 55%  
  Substantial: 25%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 3.34  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 86%  
  Learn More About Debra
A productive nation is a wealthier nation,
A wealthy nation is a happier nation.
This is the fundamental principle that guides the only 2 arguments below as there is no real need for more...
1. It’s in the Constitution.
It is the job of the president, the Congress, and the Supreme Court to, above all, uphold the charges set forth in the Constitution, which begins thus:
A healthy nation favors domestic tranquility... Universal healthcare promotes general welfare... A more productive and wealthy nation can provide better & stronger common defense.
2. It’s pro-business.
The current healthcare system is bad for businesses large and small. It’s bad for doctors, it’s bad for patients. The only business it’s good for is the health insurance business.
Founded on the odd mandate that employers should spring for health care, the current system puts a stranglehold on small business, the lifeblood of American innovation and ingenuity. How many would-be entrepreneurs decide not to start up a new business because of concerns about health care expenses? How many existing small businesses are not hiring more workers because of concerns about health care expenses?
And it’s not just small companies. The current healthcare system almost brought down General Motors, long considered the bluest of blue-chip American companies, and one of the biggest corporations in the country. GM’s near collapse was not the result of decreased demand for American automobiles. Rising health care costs are what came this close to killing Detroit.
  Considerate: 84%  
  Substantial: 97%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 96%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 10.52  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 17%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 85%  
  Substantial: 41%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 78%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 8.58  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 61%  
  Learn More About Debra
Blues and Raptors handed two very toxic teams embarrassing losses, 95% of the sports world is rejoicing in the news
Repealing the Second Amendment is the first step to Totalitarianism, and it needs to be prevented to protect our freedom
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/
  Considerate: 88%  
  Substantial: 59%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 84%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 6.76  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 81%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 26%  
  Substantial: 42%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 7.8  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 99%  
  Learn More About Debra
Why do you need healthcare if you don’t even want vaccines? You are asking for the taxpayer to pay for your expensive a$$ complications due to the fact that you think that vaccines are bad? You are the epitome of a hypocritical mooch.
  Considerate: 38%  
  Substantial: 92%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 93%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 8.12  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 100%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 59%  
  Substantial: 46%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 94%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 5.36  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 84%  
  Learn More About Debra
Blues and Raptors handed two very toxic teams embarrassing losses, 95% of the sports world is rejoicing in the news
Repealing the Second Amendment is the first step to Totalitarianism, and it needs to be prevented to protect our freedom
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/
  Considerate: 34%  
  Substantial: 34%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 75%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 8.24  
  Sources: 2  
  Relevant (Beta): 93%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 29%  
  Substantial: 75%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 100%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.06  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 100%  
  Learn More About Debra
Now, if we are talking about tax-funded universal healthcare, then that is a different matter. No country should have such a horrible and inefficient system, in my opinion. Let charity organisations, individual philanthropists and crowdfunding campaigns take care of purchasing private healthcare services for those who cannot pay for themselves.
I, for one, am happy to be serviced momentarily upon needing a service. Had a horrible toothache come up once, and I was being treated just 40 minutes later. I do not know of a single public-funded healthcare system in which such efficiency is a norm, rather than an exception. Try pulling out something like this in Canada or the UK... If you are very-very lucky, you can be serviced the same day, but do not count on it.
  Considerate: 83%  
  Substantial: 99%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 98%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 10.78  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 83%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 64%  
  Substantial: 27%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 96%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 4.64  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 42%  
  Learn More About Debra
First, I've never seen you making a fallacy before and I'm pretty sure you know, that "universal healthcare" is NOT universal "offer of healthcare", you seem too articulate to actually believe what you wrote. And I thought intellectual dishonesty wouldn't appear in your argumentation... Random case of bad-faith maybe?
Second, as a Canadian born individual, I can affirm that what you describe is patently false.
  Considerate: 68%  
  Substantial: 76%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 90%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 10.92  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 99%  
  Learn More About Debra
Part of my family leaves in Canada, and one of its members had to have a lot of her teeth fixed. I know pretty well how that system works; it is not quite the paradise some try to make it look.
The US system is not perfect either, and it definitely is more costly than it should be - but it is pretty efficient, from my experience in both the US and a few other countries.
I did not make a fallacy, I simply interpreted the term literally. People do not like to call things what they are, because it makes them sound harsh. Nobody wants to talk about healthcare which is based on forceful expropriation of money from some people to fund the services for other people, but "universal healthcare" sounds much nicer. I do not accept the softer language, I prefer to call things what they are.
  Considerate: 92%  
  Substantial: 98%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 95%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 10.22  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 100%  
  Learn More About Debra
It must have been a long while since you've seen or talked to them... Dental healthcare is not covered in the Canada Health Act passed in 1984. There are programs but limited to children and it differs according to your province.
From this link: In Canada, general oral health is not included in the Canada Health Act (CHA). Most Canadians receive oral healthcare through privately operated dental clinics and pay for services through insurance or by paying it for themselves. Some dental services are covered through government dental programs.
These arguments are annoying in the same way those of born again Christians are... Obtuse dogmatism & denial...
*sigh*
  Considerate: 72%  
  Substantial: 77%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 94%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.42  
  Sources: 3  
  Relevant (Beta): 64%  
  Learn More About Debra
I do not remember claiming otherwise. Not sure why you are trying to persuade me that the healthcare in Canada is not fully nationalized; I am perfectly aware of that fact.
My argument was about its efficiency, which you did not address at all.
  Considerate: 88%  
  Substantial: 88%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 96%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 10.54  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 99%  
  Learn More About Debra
If you knew that, why bring up your relative's teeth story? This is TKDB's usual move...
On efficiency, true we can do better, mostly in relation to some specific types of elective surgery, we definitely could open a bit more space for the private sector, I'm not against it, I know some are but meh... But if your life actually depends on it, it's very efficient. And no one goes bankrupt because of health issues.
One can always find horror stories and failures in any system if they look hard enough. But overall Canadians are way better off than the US, the numbers don't lie...
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/u-s-spends-public-money-healthcare-sweden-canada/
  Considerate: 71%  
  Substantial: 75%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 95%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 8.54  
  Sources: 1  
  Relevant (Beta): 39%  
  Learn More About Debra
Whats the single biggest reason Americans file for bankruptcy?
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/05/01/this-is-the-no-1-reason-americans-file-for-bankrup.aspx
Where I live if one is unemployed and receiving government welfare one is entitled to free medical care and medicines , I see this as entirely fair and progressive and what I would expect of a civilized society , if I was unfortunate enough to lose my job through another world wide recession or something else and needed a hand out it’s there for me .
Incidentally if one is seriously ill and needs an op it’s done whether one pays or not , if it’s not life threatening you go on a list but if you have health insurance it’s done right away, the system if far from perfect but it’s a safety net I’m glad is there.
Incidentally I like every citizen of my country are entitled to a state pension the minute we retire which amounts to roughly €500 euro a week tax free between us with reduced gas , electricity and TV bills thrown , you get this along with any private pensions you have.
I communicate with Americans over here every day in my business and they are astonished when they hear this , the biggest fear for most Americans is the fact they wil not have enough funds to fund there old age.
How come a lot of Americans resist so strongly a fair system for those who are victims of unemployment , illness or poorly paid work, yet applaud when another billion is spent on the military as we keep getting told how great their military is.
Whats truly hilarious is when I hear “Christians” loosing the absolute cool at the idea of universal health care wonder what Jesus would do?
This is a debate site we are here to debate my commentary is not a reflection on Americans who I think are mostly decent , kind human beings and I’ve lived and worked there and enjoyed it , my commentary is mainly about attitudes to different aspects of our societies we may speak the same language but are miles apart in our views of what we think is the ideal society.
Incidentally last time on a debate site I aired my views on this topic I was rabidly attacked by mostly “Christian “Americans who called me Stalin and worse, I don’t anticipate such a reaction here but who knows☺️
I’ve worked all my life but do not pay medical insurance and wouldn’t do so many who work also take that option, I’ve payed taxes on just about everything all my life , property tax , waste and refuse taxes , taxes on every purchase I make etc ,etc, our capitalist countries have money to burn and can easily afford a decent medical system
  Considerate: 76%  
  Substantial: 89%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 92%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 9.66  
  Sources: 2  
  Relevant (Beta): 6%  
  Learn More About Debra
I shouldn’t have to pay for you when you’re on your death bed due to the fact that you cant prevent the common cold.
  Considerate: 89%  
  Substantial: 59%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 93%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 3.88  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 96%  
  Learn More About Debra
If private healthcare delivered better service there'd at least be an argument for delivering more, but there are a variety of obvious reasons why a consolidated universal healthcare system would be superior to the USA's broken private sector mess. just to toss out a couple of obvious ones:
- It would do away with wasted money spent on marketing. Individual insurance companies can spend over a billion dollars a year on marketing. The catchiness of a TV jingle or the humour of Youtube video an insurance company hopes will go viral and get them more customers (and therefore more money) does nothing to reduce the cost of healthcare or help keep you healthy - in fact the opposite as it's money that could have gone on providing healthcare.
- Economies of scale. The government already gets great savings on drugs, equipment , etc because Medicare is such a huge client for customers. Additionally it can get rid of redundancies like a hundred different insurance companies all having departments doing the same work which could be more efficiently handled under the aegis of a single organisation.
This is why even right-wing think tanks doing their best to tear down the idea of a more public healthcare system have found that such ideas would save people trillions of dollars.
  Considerate: 78%  
  Substantial: 99%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 95%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.86  
  Sources: 4  
  Relevant (Beta): 68%  
  Learn More About Debra
I suppose everyone interprets the world "civilisation" differently. I see civilisation as mostly manifesting in two things: individual freedom and technological progress, in that order of importance. I do not see a system that suppresses the individual freedom for the sake of some "common good" as civilised; rather, I see it as return back to the Medieval times, when the "common good" argument was used as an excuse to control people's finances, and lives overall.
The most successful nations in Earth's history have been: Phoenicians, Ancient Greeks, Ancient Romans, British Empire and the United States of America - and all of these nations stood out from everyone else by their relative respect for individual freedom and disregard of religious traditions, the latter telling them that they must share what they have with others because of some sacred duty they all have.
Was Ancient Egypt civilised, on the other hand? People there were little more than slaves of the ruling regime, and even the pharaohs lived in the shackles of the totalitarian control the arbitrary system of strict rules imposed on them. I do not see it as civilised.
What I see as civilised is this: a person is free to build their own life independently, and then to use the fruits of their labor to enjoy life or, if they so desire, to help others. If you want to help someone who urgently needs surgery and cannot afford it, and you donate your hard-earned money to them voluntarily - this is civilised. But if the Big Brother knocks in your door and orders you to pay up so that person can afford surgery - this is totalitarianism.
A civilised system is one that finds a way to help its subsystems without imposing restrictions on them. Not the one that makes all of its subsystems directly controlled by itself.
A civilised system does not need "safety nets", it instead lets people craft their own safety nets.
  Considerate: 84%  
  Substantial: 99%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 91%  
  Sentiment: Positive  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.7  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 98%  
  Learn More About Debra
Fact: Hong Kong is hailed as the number one healthcare system in the world. [1]
Hong Kong has a universal healthcare system that is overwhelmingly funded by the government.
Fact: Hong Kong's average wait time for emergency room care is 1 hour 42 minutes. [2]
This is assuming the minimum possible government reported wait time for each hospital.
Fact: The average wait time for emergency room care in the U.S. is 30 minutes. [3]
This is according to the C.D.C in 2014. In 2017, another study found that the LONGEST wait time was 53 minutes in Maryland. [4]
Fact: Hong Kong's lowest possible wait time for Cataract surgery is 9 months, and the lowest possible wait time for joint replacement surgery is 47 months. [5] [6]
In 4 of the 7 territories in the reporting, the wait time exceeded 20 months for cataract surgery.
Fact: The average wait time for knee and hip replacement surgery in the U.S. is 15 weeks. [7]
Once again, we see the private system blowing the public one out of the water.
Fact: The U.S. Private System is the most efficient healthcare system in the world by treatment standards.
References:
[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-01/a-billionaire-forged-in-free-fire-the-fortnite-of-singapore
[2] https://www.ha.org.hk/visitor/ha_visitor_index.asp?Content_ID=235504&Lang=ENG
[3] https://health.usnews.com/health-news/patient-advice/articles/2015/05/08/enduring-really-long-waits-at-the-emergency-room
[4] https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/patient-flow/11-states-with-the-longest-er-wait-times-021517.html
[5] https://www.ha.org.hk/visitor/ha_visitor_text_index.asp?Parent_ID=214172&Content_ID=214184
[6] https://www.ha.org.hk/visitor/ha_visitor_text_index.asp?Parent_ID=214172&Content_ID=221223
[7] http://www.opnews.com/2015/05/timing-knee-hip-replacement/11125
  Considerate: 91%  
  Substantial: 62%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 91%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 7.84  
  Sources: 7  
  Relevant (Beta): 7%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 77%  
  Substantial: 40%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 82%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.38  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 88%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 89%  
  Substantial: 64%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 90%  
  Sentiment: Negative  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.26  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 58%  
  Learn More About Debra
  Considerate: 91%  
  Substantial: 64%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 85%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 10.1  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 77%  
  Learn More About Debra
Blues and Raptors handed two very toxic teams embarrassing losses, 95% of the sports world is rejoicing in the news
Repealing the Second Amendment is the first step to Totalitarianism, and it needs to be prevented to protect our freedom
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/
  Considerate: 28%  
  Substantial: 39%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 62%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 7.82  
  Sources: 2  
  Relevant (Beta): 97%  
  Learn More About Debra
I think it is safe to say that healthcare rankings do not represent anything, other than the authors' views based on their fantasies.
  Considerate: 89%  
  Substantial: 94%  
  Spelling & Grammar: 98%  
  Sentiment: Neutral  
  Avg. Grade Level: 12.76  
  Sources: 0  
  Relevant (Beta): 96%  
  Learn More About Debra